Bruce Jenner interview

[Ive_BeenDrinking]

I happen to agree with you, for the record. I just don't understand why anyone gives a cotton-picking fuck who is gay, transsexual, bi-sexual, asexual, transgendered, or no gender. How does it possibly make any difference to another person who someone else is buggering?

I have to agree and would like to add something. Why does anyone care about the ESPYs anymore? It was a cool concept however is largely opinionated and ESPN is pretty much a giant suck bag of opinions anyway. They have their good reporters but in large part you can see why Coach Pop trolls the hell out of them (and other mediocre reporters).

[roadrunnerconnor]

Courage means different things to different people. It's not a competition.

You are right, courage means different things to different people. To me, courage is Jared Hartley , deploying to IRAQ, andmanning a gunner's position in an 1114 HMMWV during numerous convoy operations. He died when a vehicle borne IED detonated and rolled the vehicle, crushing Jared to death.

I'm sorry, I didn't get your opinion of what courage was. Were you talking about Jenner?

[Volkmar]

I love, respect, and support our military. Hell, I grew up in a military family. I'm forever thankful to all veterans for what they've given for our country and for all current service men and women for what they still do give for our country. It takes a helluva lot of courage to serve, knowing you may die. No one denies that. But it also takes courage for someone to get up in front of a lot of people for the first time and give a speech, to stand for what's right in the face of those who want to do wrong, to leave everything you know and emigrate to a different country and start a new life there. Like JagRunner said, courage isn't a competition. It comes in many varying degrees and forms.

Regarding Bruce Jenner, my initial reaction was one of shock. My second reaction was one of support in the sense that as long as he's not hurting someone, if this is what he felt he needed to do in order to be happy and feel comfortable with himself, then so be it. My feeling at that point was that it did indeed take some courage to do what he did, knowing the public ridicule he'd likely receive. I also felt it was a bit rash of people to turn courage into a pissing contest by contrasting what he did with the courage of soldiers as a way of casting aspersions on him. I don't think anyone who said his act took courage ever meant in any way, shape, or form to imply that it was equal to the courage of a soldier's sacrifice in battle. Yeah, we all get that there are people with far more courage, and that there are likewise acts which are far more courageous. That's beating a dead horse, and is hardly a revelation for anyone.

Since my second reaction, I've thought about it some more, and have begun to question his motives. Some think he did it because he's sick and wanted back in the spotlight again, even if it meant going to this extreme to get that attention. Some think all transgenders are sick mentally. The bottom line is that we don't truly understand his motives, though many speculate about what they may be. We haven't walked in his shoes and don't know where he's coming from. So I don't think any of us can truly say whether or not it took courage to do what he did. We also don't know enough about transgenders yet to sit there and judge them based on our own biased views of the world. So I'm withholding judgment, and will end by saying that I'm tired of hearing about this.

[UTSA Accounting '98]

I love, respect, and support our military. Hell, I grew up in a military family. I'm forever thankful to all veterans for what they've given for our country and for all current service men and women for what they still do give for our country. It takes a helluva lot of courage to serve, knowing you may die. No one denies that. But it also takes courage for someone to get up in front of a lot of people for the first time and give a speech, to stand for what's right in the face of those who want to do wrong, to leave everything you know and emigrate to a different country and start a new life there. Like JagRunner said, courage isn't a competition. It comes in many varying degrees and forms.

Regarding Bruce Jenner, my initial reaction was one of shock. My second reaction was one of support in the sense that as long as he's not hurting someone, if this is what he felt he needed to do in order to be happy and feel comfortable with himself, then so be it. My feeling at that point was that it did indeed take some courage to do what he did, knowing the public ridicule he'd likely receive. I also felt it was a bit rash of people to turn courage into a pissing contest by contrasting what he did with the courage of soldiers as a way of casting aspersions on him. I don't think anyone who said his act took courage ever meant in any way, shape, or form to imply that it was equal to the courage of a soldier's sacrifice in battle. Yeah, we all get that there are people with far more courage, and that there are likewise acts which are far more courageous. That's beating a dead horse, and is hardly a revelation for anyone.

Since my second reaction, I've thought about it some more, and have begun to question his motives. Some think he did it because he's sick and wanted back in the spotlight again, even if it meant going to this extreme to get that attention. Some think all transgenders are sick mentally. The bottom line is that we don't truly understand his motives, though many speculate about what they may be. We haven't walked in his shoes and don't know where he's coming from. So I don't think any of us can truly say whether or not it took courage to do what he did. We also don't know enough about transgenders yet to sit there and judge them based on our own biased views of the world. So I'm withholding judgment, and will end by saying that I'm tired of hearing about this.

While your opinions are highly respected on this forum, I'm honestly curious about where we draw the line between sense of self/self-identification and diagnosed mental illness.

[CAL]

I don't give a shit about Bruce Jenner, being gay, etc. I also don't see it as being brave, or at least being braver than a lot of other things in this world.

[Volkmar]

While your opinions are highly respected on this forum, I'm honestly curious about where we draw the line between sense of self/self-identification and diagnosed mental illness.

Thanks for the compliment, dude. I don't think there's a clear line yet, which is why I said we don't know enough about transgenders yet to judge them. Some experts in the field think transgenders actually do have a mental disorder, and others either don't or say the verdict is still out. At any rate, it's something the psychiatric community is still wrestling with. Even today, with all knowledge we've gained so far in the medical and psychiatric fields, there are a great many things about ourselves, the human brain, and genetics that we have yet to understand, and this falls squarely on that front.

On another note, we all know there are cases of hermaphroditism in the animal kingdom. There have actually been rare cases of hermaphroditism among humans also where for example, someone who is female at birth transitions to a male after puberty. Now, that's an outright physical change they underwent without any intervention (medical procedure) on their part, but there's always that chance that there could be some sort of connection between that rare phenomenon and people who claim to feel like the opposite sex without the actual physical change taking place.

Personally, I'm perplexed by it all. I can't understand why a guy would want to change to a female or vice versa because I know next to nothing about it and don't really have a frame of reference from which to draw conclusions. But until we learn more about something that even experts can't come to an agreement on, I'm just saying that I'm withholding judgment.

[Mac290]

I don't find it hard to believe a man would want to become a woman and have no mental disorder.

What makes people males is one small receptor (from the Y chromosome) that allows the testosterone introduced to the fetus to be absorbed. This kicks off a million other things that make a man a man. So the blank template/default for a human is female. One small thing that doesn't go exactly as it should could cause this "condition" (for lack of a better word).
I don't have statistics, but I am fairly certain the majority of people who are transgender are men becoming women. Not the other way around.

[roadrunnerconnor]

I'm now identifying myself as an Australian Cattle Dog. Everyone loves a Blue Heeler.

[Ive_BeenDrinking]

The one person I knew that wanted to be transgender was a woman. Wanted to remove her breasts and change her name to Justin. She asked my advise. I told her do whatever made her happy. I wouldn't care one way or the other how she lived her life so long as it had no negative impact on anyone else's. Just be happy with you and if that means you want to make a change then do it. Happiness can be contagious. So can unhappiness. I then asked if she'd ever consider changing her innie to an outie. She said yes but science isn't there yet. It rarely goes well (or at least at that time around 2009) she said.

Bringing it back to topic. I don't think any of this will help Jenner's 1500m time. Still going to be his weakest event by far. That's pretty much to extent to which I care about what gender he wishes to be considered / addressed as.

As for the courage aspect, I personally don't see changing yourself to be who you want to be as more or less courageous than any awkward teenager growing up and making the transition to adulthood. You learn to ignore those that would bring you down so you can do and become who you are. No more or less then what my dad did while I was in high school. He quit his job on principal after working with his employer for 20 + years and started a new career in his mid-forties. I personally would not place it above our service men and women. The only thing Jenner certainly has more of is fame. Just my take on that.

[UTSA Accounting '98]

I'm now identifying myself as an Australian Cattle Dog. Everyone loves a Blue Heeler.

While you may think your comment is funny, I have a real medical condition. I am trans-financial. There I said it. I am a billionaire stuck in the body of a broke-ass person. I believe the government should develop a special program for me, funded by the taxpayers, to help my condition. Really, all they have to do is just give me a billion dollars and I'm made whole. It really is that simple. And while we're at it, I think ESPN should give me an award because of my courageous confession.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. This thread became way too serious. I know I'm partly to blame but thought we needed to bring it back down to what we do best.....juvenile humor.

[roadrunnerconnor]

While you may think your comment is funny, I have a real medical condition. I am trans-financial. There I said it. I am a billionaire stuck in the body of a broke-ass person. I believe the government should develop a special program for me, funded by the taxpayers, to help my condition. Really, all they have to do is just give me a billion dollars and I'm made whole. It really is that simple. And while we're at it, I think ESPN should give me an award because of my courageous confession.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. This thread became way too serious. I know I'm partly to blame but thought we needed to bring it back down to what we do best.....juvenile humor.

Dude, this is absolutely brilliant! You don't get the Arthur Ashe award, you get the J. Paul Getty award for courage.

[Mac290]

It's important that we are forever vigilant to be overly sensitive and feign compassion to any and all conditions and maladies of all people, animals, insects, birds, and ThroatZillas. Lest you feel the scorn and ridicule of the blogasphere, twitterverse, and the house frau on facebook.

[Ive_BeenDrinking]

It's important that we are forever vigilant to be overly sensitive and feign compassion to any and all conditions and maladies of all people, animals, insects, birds, and ThroatZillas. Lest you feel the scorn and ridicule of the blogasphere, twitterverse, and the house frau on facebook.

[UTSAMarineVet09]

I still think that it was all a publicity stunt for his new show.